I am trying to trace my GG Grandmother Elizabeth Bury/Berry. She was born about 1829 +/- and according to census I have found for her she was born in Baschurch. I have found an Elizabeth BURRY 1841 age 15yrs living in Shewsbury. An Elizabeth Berry is living with the Low family as a house servant in 1851. It states she was born ?? Baschurch (cannot make out the name before Baschurch)
7 April 1855 she marries Thomas Evans at ERBISTOCK. Her father's name is Edward Bury, Stonemason.
In 1861 she is in St. Martin Shropshire/Oswestry? with my Gt Grandfather Edward. Her place of birth is Baschurch.
1871 she is in Minera with husband and family. Again her place of birth is Baschurch.
1891 she is still in Minera, Again her birth place is Baschurch.
1881??
Some of her children were born in the Chirk and St Martin areas before going back to Minera. I feel there must have been family there as at one stage Thomas lived there as well as an Agriculture labourer. His main occupation seems to be mining.
Elizabeth died in Minera in 1898.
I have struggled to find any information on Elizabeth's birth or any family member. The name seems to vary from Bury on her marriage to Berry when some of her children are born. If someone is able to help I would very much appreciate it. This has been a brick wall for me for sometime now.
Many thanks,
Regards
Barbara
Mike, thank you for looking at this.
Like you I have looked for a birth/baptism for Elizabeth but have not had any luck at all.
I do have a FMP Sub and searched there as well but nothing.
I did find a birth for an Elizabeth Bury b 1829 Bapt 9 Jan 1829. Mother Elizabeth Bury, single woman. Found it in the Wiltshire Baptism index for Fonthill Bishop. I guess this could always be a possibility??
Where born Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Civil parish Chester St Oswald
County/Island Cheshire
Country England
Registration district Great Boughton
Mike are you saying that possibly I should look at Chester records at all or Cheshire.
I found a Elizabeth Berry father Edward in Manchester 1841 Census, occupation Stone Mason. I discounted this, but, should I look at this again?? Elizabeth is 11yrs, mother Jane and other sibblings.
Yes, she does seem to have connections to the area but not sure where/how/who. A real puzzle this one. I guess she could have made up the father's name on her marriage cert?? Edward was her first born, so follows the family name.
Thanks for your help, appreciate it.
Barbara
Hello Barbara
One thing you can do is get Elizabeth's year of birth from each of the census entries she appears in to establish the possible spread of years. I note that in the 1861 census in which she is the head her year of birth is 1825. Do you have a copy of her death certificate, if so what was her age and so year of birth?
It is not unusual for illegitimate people to make up a father's name for the marriage entry but it might also be the name of a step father if her mother married when the child was young so he would always be considered to be her father.
You have a difficult task with this one. Good luck.
Mike
Hi Mike,
Of the 4 census I have her for certainty are: Cannot find her in 1881, but, saying that there is an Elizabeth Evans living with her sister Sarah Mathews in Shropshire. Elizabeth is 55yrs. It is a possibility, birth though Maesbury, Shropshire, England, yr of birth 1826. So DOB anywhere between 1825 and 1829.
1851 b 1827 = 24
1861 b 1825 = 36
1871 b 1829 = 42
1891 b 1827 = 64
I do have a death certificate for her in 1898 but, I am questioning this. This may not be the correct one.
Not an easy one for sure.
Thankis.
Barbara
Did get a certificate for her death in 1898 but she is the widow of Thomas Evans Forgeman which is what Thomas was not.
Will need to try for other certificates.
Hi Barbara, Thomas did become a forgeman. See below, So the death you found is the correct one.
I'm trying to find about Elizabeth Bury's early life & birth etc. And twice she stated she was born in the Wellington Shrops area.
Best Regards
J.P
Possible:
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Cross Hill, St Chad, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
George Williams Male 30 1811 Printer Shropshire, England
Priscilla Williams Female 30 1811 Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Berry Female 15 F.S 1826 Shropshire, England
1851 Cens:
Northgate Street, St Oswalds Chester
Name: Elizabeth Berry
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where Born: Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Chester St Oswald
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Great Boughton
Sub-registration District: Cathedral Division
ED, institution, or vessel: 1d
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 129
Piece: 2172
Folio: 102
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
William Low 37
Elizabeth Low 30
Elizabeth Low 10
Richard M S Low 3 Mo
Elizabeth Berry 24
Marriage:
First name(s) Elizabeth Signed Her name
Last name Bury
Age Full
Marital status spinster
Residence Erbistock
Father's name(s) Edward Bury
Father's occupation Stonemason
Marriage date 07 Apr 1855
Marriage place Erbistock
Spouse's first name(s) Thomas Signed X
Spouse's last name Evans
Spouse's age Full
Spouse's marital status bachelor
Spouse's occupation Collier
Spouse's residence Wrexham
Spouse's father's name(s) Enoch Evans
Spouse's father's occupation Collier
First witness's name Aaron Evns X
Second witness's name Ann Roberts X
Marriage year 1855
Description Denbighshire Record Office | Marriages, PD/38/1/72, July 1837-December 1950 (PD-28-1-72)
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Event Marriage
Event type Marriages
Event year range 1837-1950
Page 12
Record set Denbighshire Marriages And Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from Wales, Great Britain
1861 Cens:
Name: Elizabeth Evans
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: 1825
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where Born: Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: St Martin
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Oswestry
Sub-registration District: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 111
Piece: 1879
Folio: 39
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Evans 36 Coal Miners Wife
Edward Evans 4 Son
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Queen Street, Cefn Mawr, Christionydd Kenrich, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Evans Head - Male 47 1824 - Forge roller? St. Martins
Elizabeth Evans Wife - Female 43 1828 - Priors? Lee,Shropshire, England
Charlotte Evans Daughter - Female 19 1852 - Denbighshire, Wales
Mary Evans Daughter - Female 16 1855 - Staffordshire, England
Charles Evans Son - Male 10 1861 - Denbighshire, Wales
George A Evans Son - Male 7 1864 - Denbighshire, Wales
George Dyson Evans Grandson - Male 1 1870 - -
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
47, Well Street, Ruabon, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Evans Head Married Male 57 1824 (iron) forge roller St Martin, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Evans Wife Married Female 52 1829 - Wellington, Shropshire, England
George A Evans Son Single Male 17 1864 Railway porter Ruabon, Denbighshire, Wales
Georgie D Evans Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire, England
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Talwrn Road, Bersham, Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Evans Head Married Male 62 1829 Labourer? (farrier?) Bersham, Denbighshire, Wales
Elizabeth Evans Wife Married Female 64 1827 - Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Annie Evans Daughter Single Female 29 1862 Domestic servant Chirk, Denbighshire, Wales
Job Evans Grandson - Male 4 1887 - Bersham, Denbighshire, Wales
Death: Age
EVANS, ELIZABETH 71
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 182
Burial:
First name(s) Elizabeth Abode:Coedpoeth
Last name Evans
Burial date 24 Oct 1898
Place Minera
Parish Minera
Age 71
Birth year 1827
Burial year 1898
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Page 156
Record set Denbighshire Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Denomination Anglican
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from Wales, Great Britain
John, thanks for taking the times to look at this info.
Unfortunately the 1871 and 1881 are not my family.
This is the family in 1871
Name Elizabeth Evans
Age 42
Estimated Birth Year 1829
Relation Wife
Spouse's Name Thomas Evans
Gender Female Where born
Baschurch, Shropshire, England
Civil parish Bersham
Ecclesiastical parish Minera
Town Talwrn
County/Island Denbighshire
Country Wales
Registration district
Wrexham
Sub-registration district
Wrexham
ED, institution, or vessel 7
Household schedule number 199
Piece 5655
Folio 125
Page number 36
Household members Name Elizabeth Evans
Age 42
Name
Thomas Evans Age
38 Name
Ann Evans Age 9
Name Thomas Evans Age 7
Name Alice Evans Age 5
Name Mary Evans Age 2
I have been unable to find the family in 1881.
I apreciate all the time you have put into this.
The death of Elizabeth "could" be correct, I have sent away for another death certificate just to clarify a few things. I should get that next week sometime.
Regards
Barbara
Hi Barbara, Are the below all the known children of Thomas Evans & Elizabeth Bury/Berry?
So it is always best to include all the information you have regarding the family in question that you would like help with.
Best Regards
J.P
EVANS, ANNE BERRY
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 674
EVANS, EDWARD BURY
GRO Reference: 1856 D Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 301
EVANS, ELIZABETH BURY
GRO Reference: 1858 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 316
EVANS, MARY BERRY
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 669
EVANS, THOMAS BERRY
GRO Reference: 1863 J Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 705
EVANS, ALICE BERRY
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 672
EVANS, MARY BURY
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 11B Page 343
Yes, that is them. Except I don't have Mary b 1859 otherwise have all other certificates.
EVANS, MARY BERRY
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 669 Haven't got this one??
Will check it out. Will send for certificate, in the meantime have found a Mary Evans age 11, Servant in 1871 for Grange family. Note there is a death for a Mary Evans 1873 age 14.
| Mary | |
| District | Oswestry |
| Last name | Evans |
| County | Shropshire |
| Gender | Female |
| Volume | 6A |
| Birth day | - |
| Page | 464 |
| Birth month | - |
| Country | England |
| Birth year | 1859 |
| Record set | England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 |
| Age | 14 |
| Category | Life Events (BDMs) |
| Death quarter | 2 |
| Subcategory | Civil Deaths & Burials |
| Death year | 1873 |
As you see Berry/Bury on the certificates. I guess could be the dialect.
Thanks.
Barbara
Hi Barbara, Below is what I believe could well be the burial of Mary 1st Evans.
Best Regards
J.P
Burial:
First name(s) Mary Abode:The Lodge(s)
Last name Evans
Burial date 30 Apr 1859
Burial place St Martin's (Weston Rhyn Tithe Map)
Archive refererence P237/A/4/1
Birth year 1859
Page 172
Death year 1859
Register type Burial
Death date ? ? 1859
Register date range 1813-1864
Age 0
Record set Shropshire Burials
Burial year 1859
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England
Denomination Anglican
County Shropshire
Death:
EVANS, MARY 0
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 470
Hi Barbara, Could the below be Mary Evans' Sibling?. It has a good chance I think, because both of them are not listed with their mother in the 1861 Cens.
Best Regards
J.P
Burial:
First name(s) Elizabeth Abode:The Lodge
Last name Evans
Burial date 26 Apr 1860
Burial place St Martin's (Weston Rhyn Tithe Map)
Age 2
Birth year 1858
Archive refererence P237/A/4/1
Page 179
Death year 1860
Register type Burial
Death date ? ? 1860
Register date range 1813-1864
Record set Shropshire Burials
Burial year 1860
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England
Denomination Anglican
County Shropshire
Death:
EVANS, ELIZABETH 2
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 481
John, this has been so helpful, thank you. Another pair of eyes, seeing it in a different light after working on it for some time. Much appreciated.
Yes, there is the possibility that the death of Mary 1 is her. The lodge St. Martins is where Anne 1861, Thomas 1863 (GG Grandfather) Alice 1864 were all born. Mary 2 was born back in Bersham in 1869. She never married and moved at least by 1901 to St. Anne Fylde where she remained till she died in 1960 at age 90. The first I found she was living in Fylde was when Alice's Illigitimate son Job recorded her on his papers for entry to Canada in 1908.
I have sent away for the PDF for Mary1 b 1859.
As for Elizabeth born 13 Feb 1858, yes, she died 23 April 1860 the Lodge St Martin and buried April 26.
The naming rights for the family, follow a bit of a pattern. Edward b 1856 (G Grandfather) from Elizabeth's father? Not sure though about Mary as Thomas's mother was Suzanna, not sure where Mary comes in. Thomas's father Enoch? So not a complete follow on.
Again thank you for your great help.
Regards
Barbara
Hi Barbara, I believe that Elizabeth Bury's mothers name is highly likely to be Mary. To name 2 daughter's Mary, means that name is a very important to this family.
I'm still searching for Elizabeth Bury's father Edward Bury, stonemason, but he is very elusive. And I think Elizabeth could well be illegitimate. I do have a possible baptism for her, but I trying to find her named father Edward Bury first. And to find out what happen to Elizabeth's possible mother.
Best Regards
J.P
Hi John, Thank you once again.
I totally agree with you re the name Mary, it is significant. Edward (GGrandfather) named after Elizabeth's father, Elizabeth after mother and Mary certainly is significant.
It just doesn't seem to add up that she has repeatedly put her place of birth as Baschurch. I am not familiar with the earea or researching it. Liverpool area has been my most significant so this area of research is new to me. Learning all the places and their locations. Hard being so far away.
I did find a birth for an Elizabeth Bury in Wiltshire who was illigitimate.
Name Elizabeth Bury
Gender Female
Baptism Date 9 Jan 1829
Baptism Place Fonthill Bishop, Wiltshire, England
Parish as it Appears Font Bishop
Mother Elizabeth Bury
Just sitting in my shoebox on Ancestry.
Thanks John.
Barbara
John, I did find a Edward Berry in Manchester 1841, who is a stone mason. Wife's name Jane!! Will try and follow up on it today.
Name Edward Berry
Age 40
Estimated Birth Year 1801
Gender Male
Where born Lancashire, England
Civil parish Manchester
Hundred Salford
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Manchester
Sub-registration district Ancoats
Piece 576
Book 12
Folio 19
Page number 32
Jane Berry
Age 35
Name Mary Berry
Age 13
Name Elizabeth Berry Age 11
Name John Berry Age 8
Jane Berry Age 6
Edward Berry Age 4
James Berry Age 1
Hi Barbara, I think that Edward Berry you found in Manchester was a Shoe Maker. I found the same person & family in the 1851 Cens.
Also I think there was some truth in what Elizabeth Bury stated on her marriage record about her father.
I think her father could well be Edward but perhaps his surname was Mason. There are plenty of Edward Mason's about in Shropshire.
Including one who stated in the 1851 Cens he was born in Baschurch.
So this is the best shot for a Elizabeth Bury/Berry I can find. At a later date perhaps she just added beth to the end of her name.
Best Regards
J.P
Best shot for Elizabeth Bury/Berry
Baptism:
First name(s) Eliza Abode:House Of Industry
Last name Berry
Illegitimate
Birth date 11 Mar 1826
Baptism date 26 Mar 1826
Place Shrewsbury, St Chad's
Mother's name(s) Mary Berry Occ:Servant
Father's first name(s) -
County Shropshire
Birth year 1826
Register type Baptism
Register date range 1825-1837
Baptism year 1826
Archive reference P253/A/2/3
Page 12
Denomination Anglican
Record set Shropshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from Great Britain, England
Perhaps Elizabeth's mother's baptism?:
Baptism:
First name(s) Mary
Last name Bury
Residence -
Birth date 01 Mar 1803
Baptism date 13 Mar 1803
Place Shrewsbury, St Mary's
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name -
Father's first name(s) -
County Shropshire
Birth year 1803
Register type Baptism & Burial
Register date range 1775-1806
Baptism year 1803
Archive reference P257/A/1/4
Page 143
Denomination Anglican
Record set Shropshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Collections from Great Britain, England
Best Shot for Elizabeth Bury/Berry
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Cross Hill, St Chad, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
George Williams Male 30 1811 Printer Shropshire, England
Priscilla Williams Female 30 1811 Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Berry Female 15 F.S 1826 Shropshire, England
Perhaps her mother?
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
St Alkmunds Place, Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ann Driver Head Unmarried Female 58 1793 Stay maker -
Mary Bury Servant Unmarried Female 43 1808 House serv - St. Mary's Shrewsbury
Perhaps her mother's burial?
Burial:
First name(s) Mary Abode:St. Alkmund's Square
Last name Bury
Age 50
Burial date 25 Nov 1854
Burial place Shrewsbury, St Alkmund's
Archive refererence P252/A/4/1
Birth year 1804
Page 200
Death year 1854
Register type Burial
Death date ? ? 1854
Register date range 1813-1855
Record set Shropshire Burials
Burial year 1854
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
County Shropshire
Collections from Great Britain, England
Denomination Anglican
Perhaps her mother's Death?
Death:
BURY, MARY 50
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in SHREWSBURY Volume 06A Page 457
John,
Received the birth certificate for Mary Evans
EVANS, MARY BERRY
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 669
This is one of Elizabeth & Thomas's children.
B 30th March 1859 at the Lodge St Martin.
I am curious about "The Lodge" at St. Martin. Are you able to enlighten me any further.
All but 3 of the children were born there.
Many thanks for bringing my attention to another daughter.
Regards
Barbara
Hi Barbara, The lodges mentioned no longer exist, but I've looked through the cens including the lodges, and they were very close to The Gledrid, Preesgwyne, Rhosweil & Morton where there is now a Girls School called Moreton Hall. Which is about 1 mile to the West of St.Martins.
Best Regards
J.P
John, Thanks for the info re the Lodge, much appreciated.
I have received the death PDF printout of Mary Evans b 1859. She was a month old when she passed on 28 April 1859. Died from Convulsions, not certified. Parents were Elizabeth and Thomas Evans - Coal miner. Which is correct.
Regards
Barbara
Hi Barbara, Some more info for you. When my maternal Grandmother left School in 1922/23. She went to work as a housemaid at Erbistock Hall. I think it's a good chance that Elizabeth Bury could have worked there also. There is a lot of info on the Hall on the internet.
Best Regards
J.P
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Hello Barbara
The 1851 census entry place of birth says, "Shropshire Baschurch". If you look down the 'Where Born' column all the entries have the County of birth followed by the place, usually the parish but not always.
The baptism registers of Baschurch, Shropshire are on the Find my Past subscription web site but I can't find any trace of a baptism for Elizabeth BURY / BERRY.
The family obviously have connections with places located in Wales in the Wrexham area and whilst I don't have access to such detailed records as I do for Shropshire I still can't find a baptism for Elizabeth.
Mike